Comments on: Tips for ScrumMasters: Estimate user stories outside Sprint Planning Meetings http://blog.xebia.com/2009/11/11/tips-for-scrummasters-estimate-user-stories-outside-sprint-planning-meetings/ Software development done right! Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:41:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Marco Mulder http://blog.xebia.com/2009/11/11/tips-for-scrummasters-estimate-user-stories-outside-sprint-planning-meetings/#comment-93052 Marco Mulder Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:23:48 +0000 http://blog.xebia.com/?p=3406#comment-93052 Hi Andreas, Thanks for your comment. I completely agree with you that it is not necessary for the Product Owner to always have whole teams present when discussing how to break up user stories into smaller ones. Breaking up user stories is part of getting them READY. To do this, the Product Owner needs to involve team members, but also business stakeholders, operations etc. Backlog Refinement sessions are therefore not the only place where user stories are split, it just often happens at such meetings as well. Especially in projects with multiple teams working from one Product Backlog, it is even not feasible to include all members of all teams in Backlog Refinement sessions to estimate user stories. In my opinion, the only time for which it is not debatable whether the whole team needs to be present to discuss user stories is the Sprint Planning Meeting. This is the only time when a team commits to a set of user stories. Estimates that are given in Backlog Refinement meetings should be interpreted as commitments. Using relative estimates in story points helps to avoid this trap. Hi Andreas,

Thanks for your comment. I completely agree with you that it is not necessary for the Product Owner to always have whole teams present when discussing how to break up user stories into smaller ones. Breaking up user stories is part of getting them READY. To do this, the Product Owner needs to involve team members, but also business stakeholders, operations etc. Backlog Refinement sessions are therefore not the only place where user stories are split, it just often happens at such meetings as well.

Especially in projects with multiple teams working from one Product Backlog, it is even not feasible to include all members of all teams in Backlog Refinement sessions to estimate user stories. In my opinion, the only time for which it is not debatable whether the whole team needs to be present to discuss user stories is the Sprint Planning Meeting. This is the only time when a team commits to a set of user stories. Estimates that are given in Backlog Refinement meetings should be interpreted as commitments. Using relative estimates in story points helps to avoid this trap.

]]> By: Andreas Ebbert-Karroum http://blog.xebia.com/2009/11/11/tips-for-scrummasters-estimate-user-stories-outside-sprint-planning-meetings/#comment-93051 Andreas Ebbert-Karroum Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:17:36 +0000 http://blog.xebia.com/?p=3406#comment-93051 Hi, thanks for emphasizing that there is a need for a planning meeting prior to the sprint planning, needed at irregular intervals, depending on how many new stories are discovered, and how frequently they have to be broken down into smaller ones. Regarding the "Backlog Refinement Meeting", do you really think it is necessary, to have the whole team discuss how to break up stories into smaller pieces? In my opinion this is what the product owner is responsible for. It's difficult, agreed, and he might need some help, but does it have to be the whole team? When the resulting stories are estimated, the whole teams needs to be present and understand the stories, that's out of question. Kind Regards, Andreas Hi,

thanks for emphasizing that there is a need for a planning meeting prior to the sprint planning, needed at irregular intervals, depending on how many new stories are discovered, and how frequently they have to be broken down into smaller ones.

Regarding the “Backlog Refinement Meeting”, do you really think it is necessary, to have the whole team discuss how to break up stories into smaller pieces? In my opinion this is what the product owner is responsible for. It’s difficult, agreed, and he might need some help, but does it have to be the whole team? When the resulting stories are estimated, the whole teams needs to be present and understand the stories, that’s out of question.

Kind Regards,
Andreas

]]> By: Marco Mulder http://blog.xebia.com/2009/11/11/tips-for-scrummasters-estimate-user-stories-outside-sprint-planning-meetings/#comment-93050 Marco Mulder Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:48:41 +0000 http://blog.xebia.com/?p=3406#comment-93050 @Abderrazak, Uladzimir: Jeff Sutherland, inventor of Scrum, defines Scrum as follows: Scrum as an open development framework with a simple set of rules. The rules are constraints on behavior that cause a complex adaptive system to self- organize into an intelligent state. My point about Scrum being a framework is this: there are many things that Scrum does not prescribe. This is on purpose. It leaves a lot of room for teams to self organize themselves in many different contexts. It also leaves plenty of room for sharing best practices, which will often be less generically applicable than Scrum itself. @Abderrazak, Uladzimir:
Jeff Sutherland, inventor of Scrum, defines Scrum as follows:
Scrum as an open development framework with a simple set of rules. The rules are constraints on behavior that cause a complex adaptive system to self- organize into an intelligent state.

My point about Scrum being a framework is this: there are many things that Scrum does not prescribe. This is on purpose. It leaves a lot of room for teams to self organize themselves in many different contexts. It also leaves plenty of room for sharing best practices, which will often be less generically applicable than Scrum itself.

]]> By: Marco Mulder http://blog.xebia.com/2009/11/11/tips-for-scrummasters-estimate-user-stories-outside-sprint-planning-meetings/#comment-93049 Marco Mulder Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:34:45 +0000 http://blog.xebia.com/?p=3406#comment-93049 @Iwein: Even if you can do without a roadmap based on velocity and estimated backlog items, it is still a good idea to prepare user stories so that they are READY before you start a sprint. It is wise to allocate some time for this. With user stories that are not READY, the team will often loose much more time. I have seen this happen in several projects: while working on user stories in a Sprint, teams have to wait for answers for clarification from the Product Owner who waits for answers from the stakeholders that he represents. Preparing user stories to a state where enough is clear about them to prevent this can increase the velocity of the team a lot. @Iwein:
Even if you can do without a roadmap based on velocity and estimated backlog items, it is still a good idea to prepare user stories so that they are READY before you start a sprint. It is wise to allocate some time for this. With user stories that are not READY, the team will often loose much more time. I have seen this happen in several projects: while working on user stories in a Sprint, teams have to wait for answers for clarification from the Product Owner who waits for answers from the stakeholders that he represents. Preparing user stories to a state where enough is clear about them to prevent this can increase the velocity of the team a lot.

]]> By: Uladzimir Liashkevich http://blog.xebia.com/2009/11/11/tips-for-scrummasters-estimate-user-stories-outside-sprint-planning-meetings/#comment-93047 Uladzimir Liashkevich Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:24:35 +0000 http://blog.xebia.com/?p=3406#comment-93047 Marko, Methodology-framework: I always thought it was vice versa - RUP is a framework and SCRUM is a methodology. Though I'm not absolutely sure that SCRUM is *not* a framework. Concerning RUP: http://www-01.ibm.com/software/awdtools/rup/ Uladzimir. Marko,

Methodology-framework: I always thought it was vice versa – RUP is a framework and SCRUM is a methodology. Though I’m not absolutely sure that SCRUM is *not* a framework.
Concerning RUP:
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/awdtools/rup/

Uladzimir.

]]> By: Iwein Fuld http://blog.xebia.com/2009/11/11/tips-for-scrummasters-estimate-user-stories-outside-sprint-planning-meetings/#comment-93045 Iwein Fuld Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:04:29 +0000 http://blog.xebia.com/?p=3406#comment-93045 I do appreciate yet another attempt at structuring the life cycle of a user story better. Having a good roadmap is what is lacking in many environments I've worked in. On the other hand, the single biggest challenge for any project team is to keep focus. In my current team we're losing almost 10% of our time in meetings, I'm very reluctant to add another one to the list. I do appreciate yet another attempt at structuring the life cycle of a user story better. Having a good roadmap is what is lacking in many environments I’ve worked in. On the other hand, the single biggest challenge for any project team is to keep focus. In my current team we’re losing almost 10% of our time in meetings, I’m very reluctant to add another one to the list.

]]> By: Abderrazak http://blog.xebia.com/2009/11/11/tips-for-scrummasters-estimate-user-stories-outside-sprint-planning-meetings/#comment-93043 Abderrazak Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:55:56 +0000 http://blog.xebia.com/?p=3406#comment-93043 Thank you for the post, Just something to say, I think that SCRUM is not a "Framework" as mentioned earlier within the post, because that a framework defines a boundary(ies), I until now don't heard about boundary(ies) for SCRUM. Thank you for the post,
Just something to say, I think that SCRUM is not a “Framework” as mentioned earlier within the post, because that a framework defines a boundary(ies), I until now don’t heard about boundary(ies) for SCRUM.

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